2 Faced
By Eric Doyle
The music on "Dredge Up Eventide" is dark and dreamy to say the least. Like a soundtrack to a bizarre dream each song follows an eerie narrative blurring the lines between what's real and what could be. Chuck uses plain 90's-ish drum machine sounds reminiscent of the heavy, short decayed kick's, closed hats and snares used on Arthur Russell's "Calling Out of Context". The drum's stand out under thick layers of synth, guitar, trumpet, male/female vocals that all weave in and out of dissonance and consonance with masterful composition. But it's this marriage of tragic and ecstatic world's that makes Stern's music so ground-breaking. It's this dualistic pattern that has become Chuck's trademark as a jack of all trades artist. "I'm simultaneously a very silly and very serious person. I like to mix those. I find the best art has a little humor in it that makes the scary/serious/sad shit that much more powerful."
If you're already a fan of Chuck's music your loyalty will increase once you've seen him on the big screen. He's been an absurdest actor directing, scoring and acting in a plethora of public access and internet shows like "It Changed :(" and "Roboshithead". He's also a long time collaborator with Brooklyn composer Charlie Looker (Extra Life, Zs). They have a new side project called Sculptress. Chuck was generous enough to send me "Dredge Up Eventide" and a couple unreleased Sculptress tracks. In the past, Chuck has released music on notable labels like John Zorn's Tzadik. He's currently looking for a deal for "Dredge Up Eventide". Any takers? I recently caught up with Chuck about his music, his movies, and even his night-dreams.
How are you?
I'm doing really well. Been working on a bunch of new projects. I just finished up a new episode of my crazy public access show "It Changed :(". The episode is called "The Big Dig" and it should be online later this week.
I just watched the "sports talk" and the "family sitcom" It Changed :( episodes. They were absurd.
Thanks! Yeah, this one is super weird and bleak.
How would you explain "It Changed :(" to someone who's never seen the show?
Well, the format changes every week. It started off as a live show - one week a sports show, the next a sit com (and we always pretended that it was ALWAYS what was on that week). But it was total chaos - no repeating characters or anything. We would parody kinds of shows, and then it evolved to get more abstract than simple parody. The same thing happened with my other show, Roboshithead.
What about abstract parody attracts you as an actor/artist?
Sorry, hold on one sec.
No prob.
Sorry, some lunatic was bothering me. So anyway...
Abstract parody.
I love abstract art.
Why?
Probably because it's new ground - you're both creating something new as an artist and there's (hopefully) an awful lot of room for interpretation as a viewer/listener.
I've always been obsessed with alien worlds and the nebulous world of dreams and space. It's only natural that all my projects, which started out sort of accessible, go down that road.
I love dreams.
Oh man...
Have you had any dreams that stand out from others that you want to tell me about?
My dreams are epic.
What's the most epic dream you can remember?
I have one - not totally recent - but a good one. It involved a triangular white female face coming toward me in space. She was the "protean forehead woman" and was there to show me how powerless men were in this world. There were other chapters of this dream that involved men and women melting into soup in front of me. It was just horrifying, but obviously awesome as well. That's a summary of it, but as we all know, dreams can never fully be explained to someone else.
Have you written any songs based off your dreams?
I did - "Crib Tinge to Callow" On the last Time Of Orchids album.
How did you get into acting? What do you like about acting? What actors/directors inspire you?
Well, most of my acting is comedy stuff. I don't think I'm much of a real actor. I love playing strange characters, looking really hideous. I've always loved that. I guess I've always done it. My sister and I used to make short comedy films when I was like 10. As for inspiration, it's usually like, how do I get this ridiculous character/joke out of my head into reality? The jokes/characters themselves come from inside jokes, funny ideas or dreams. Some directors I love are: Cronenberg, Verhoeven, Cameron, just to name a few. I love Jennifer Jason Leigh. Also, with comedy, a key thing is to do stuff that makes you laugh. A lot of hilarious stuff I've seen (I suspect) involves the actors reaching their limit and cutting right before they laugh. That kind of thing. Crack yourself up and you know someone else out there will laugh, too. That's not to say laugh during it, but almost laugh during it.
It seems Stern combines comedy with a contrasted dark-side?
Yeah, I think there's humor in everything I do, but Stern is very "serious" sounding and dark and sinister and, well, stern. I'm simultaneously a very silly and very serious person. I like to mix those. I find the best art has a little humor in it that makes the scary/serious/sad shit that much more powerful.
Can you walk through the lyrical content on Dredge Up Eventide? Let's start with "With Steady Clout".
The song is about being at a crossroads in life and being forced to grow up. It's about taking pride in holding your ground and NOT wavering, about bracing the storm. I had just broken up with my girlfriend and my band and felt the need to declare my independence in that song and my stance on continuing to follow my gut. That line is basically saying all that. And again, it's kind of silly, because who am I to proclaim that I have clout. I mean, really, what nerve.
It's very subtle humor.
And those concepts are in a lot of the lyrics on the album.
You describe your music, synth in particular as "Shostakovian". What about his music appears in your compositions?
A lot. The weaving movements/patterns of the strings. A real claustrophobic, textural sound. Very dark, but probably the most beautiful thing in the world. Plus, I love fake instruments, so I'm happy to do this kind of thing on synth, as opposed to real strings. The new It Changed :( episode I was talking about has a score that's very Shostakovian. I'm happy with the music I made.
Were these songs recorded at home? Are these the final mixes or should we expect a final product?
I record each instrument, one by one, sometimes pretty painstakingly. I use a lot of synth (strings, piano, etc), real guitar, drum machine and vocals. I also have Tim Byrnes play trumpet on the tracks. So, it's a lot to coordinate, but it's all played and "felt," so to speak, not programmed. These are the final mixes. I'm sort of perfecting each song as I go and the idea is to have nine of them on the album, which I'll have done in about a year. I have the whole thing mapped out in my head (titles, visions of each song, lyrics) and creating it all is just sort of shading in each region and making these things realities. It's very exciting, but it's also very draining at times. The fun of it is keeping with the vision and staying true to your insane ideas, while not straying too far. I'm definitely more of a "product" person than a "process" one, so when it gets rough, I've just got to have faith in the big picture.
I know you worked with Kate Pierson on a Time of Orchids album. How did you meet Kate? What was it like working with such a prestigious pop icon?
Kate is amazing. I approached her after a B-52's concert, sneaking past security guards in the rain. She came out of her trailer with a dainty little umbrella and took my Time of Orchids demo (our heaviest material, too - basically prog tech-metal.) She got in touch with us a little while later, having loved it and agreed to sing on our second album, "Much Too Much Fun." It was heaven working with her. She had all sorts of ideas that complemented the parts we had written/arranged for her. There was only one tense moment during recording when I had her sing a part a bunch of times, not quite satisfied. She looked at me at one point, eyes all lit up, and stammered, "well, I never!" After that, I was like," Kate, do whatever the fuck you want!" I love what we got out of her and I'm really proud of that album.
Stern live?
Live, Stern is going to be a total karaoke-kamikaze assault. All the music (sans vocals) will be played on the loudspeakers and I will just sing over it. There will be no instruments actually played - just me with a mic. I'm done with bands and people and learning parts, fucking up, etc. The live component of this project is all about me getting my rocks off and singing, free of everything else. That's why the recording is so meticulous, because I'm not only perfecting it for the album, but for the stage, as well.
What's in store for Stern?
I want to create some really layered, really personal music and be able to play it live relatively easily and have fun with it. However dark the shit gets, I want to maintain a positive vibe throughout, because I am essentially a positive guy. That being said, I do want to get heavy again and do some really tortured music. Lots of ideas. I may make a Stern film, which will be all about deep space. I may write a Stern novel. Who knows?
Why did you leave Time of Orchids?
I felt that it was time to end Time of Orchids and I was the one who broke up the band. Basically, I felt that we had accomplished what we set out to do and I'm really proud of it all. There's no ill-will or anything. Just a sense that it had run its course. Those five albums are some of my favorite albums ever and if someone wants to check us out, great. If not, fuck it. I can't do anything more to push that band. I'm doing Stern now and I'm pumped about it. I guess I really needed to make music completely on my own terms and that's what I'm doing. I never thought I would leave or break up Time of Orchids. It was my life for eight and a half years. We used to joke about doing so-and-so on our "fifty-seventh album" or whatever. It was going to go and on, but then it occurred to me that "Namesake Caution" was really our ultimate statement and I didn't want to force it beyond that. It was tough, but it needed to happen and I don't regret my decision.
Are there any musical friends you want to tell us about?
Well, at the moment, Extra Life is blowing my mind. That's Charlie Looker's new band. He and I have been friends since eighth grade and have influenced each other a lot. We have sort of a shared sense of what is good, what is "masterful." To see him embodying all that and doing it on his own is not only exciting, but inspiring. But he's always inspired me. Hazel-Rah (Tim Byrnes' new solo outing) is equally amazing and inspiring. It's like diagonal pop music trapped in telephone wire. I love it. There are a lot of liberating solo acts nowadays. Giggle the Ozone is my friend Dylan's band - not entirely a solo project, although it has that spirit. Dylan's music is astonishing. I highly recommend checking that band out, as well as his other projects, like Zeehas; 12 Wait and Statutaur. Utterly amazing. Scutopus makes incredible noise and drone pieces, some of which are absolutely gorgeous. I have a lot of very talented friends.
Who is the guest female vocalist on "Dredge Up Eventide"?
Were these songs recorded at home? Are these the final mixes or should we expect a final product?
I record each instrument, one by one, sometimes pretty painstakingly. I use a lot of synth (strings, piano, etc), real guitar, drum machine and vocals. I also have Tim Byrnes play trumpet on the tracks. So, it's a lot to coordinate, but it's all played and "felt," so to speak, not programmed. These are the final mixes. I'm sort of perfecting each song as I go and the idea is to have nine of them on the album, which I'll have done in about a year. I have the whole thing mapped out in my head (titles, visions of each song, lyrics) and creating it all is just sort of shading in each region and making these things realities. It's very exciting, but it's also very draining at times. The fun of it is keeping with the vision and staying true to your insane ideas, while not straying too far. I'm definitely more of a "product" person than a "process" one, so when it gets rough, I've just got to have faith in the big picture.
I know you worked with Kate Pierson on a Time of Orchids album. How did you meet Kate? What was it like working with such a prestigious pop icon?
Kate is amazing. I approached her after a B-52's concert, sneaking past security guards in the rain. She came out of her trailer with a dainty little umbrella and took my Time of Orchids demo (our heaviest material, too - basically prog tech-metal.) She got in touch with us a little while later, having loved it and agreed to sing on our second album, "Much Too Much Fun." It was heaven working with her. She had all sorts of ideas that complemented the parts we had written/arranged for her. There was only one tense moment during recording when I had her sing a part a bunch of times, not quite satisfied. She looked at me at one point, eyes all lit up, and stammered, "well, I never!" After that, I was like," Kate, do whatever the fuck you want!" I love what we got out of her and I'm really proud of that album.
Stern live?
Live, Stern is going to be a total karaoke-kamikaze assault. All the music (sans vocals) will be played on the loudspeakers and I will just sing over it. There will be no instruments actually played - just me with a mic. I'm done with bands and people and learning parts, fucking up, etc. The live component of this project is all about me getting my rocks off and singing, free of everything else. That's why the recording is so meticulous, because I'm not only perfecting it for the album, but for the stage, as well.
What's in store for Stern?
I want to create some really layered, really personal music and be able to play it live relatively easily and have fun with it. However dark the shit gets, I want to maintain a positive vibe throughout, because I am essentially a positive guy. That being said, I do want to get heavy again and do some really tortured music. Lots of ideas. I may make a Stern film, which will be all about deep space. I may write a Stern novel. Who knows?
Why did you leave Time of Orchids?
I felt that it was time to end Time of Orchids and I was the one who broke up the band. Basically, I felt that we had accomplished what we set out to do and I'm really proud of it all. There's no ill-will or anything. Just a sense that it had run its course. Those five albums are some of my favorite albums ever and if someone wants to check us out, great. If not, fuck it. I can't do anything more to push that band. I'm doing Stern now and I'm pumped about it. I guess I really needed to make music completely on my own terms and that's what I'm doing. I never thought I would leave or break up Time of Orchids. It was my life for eight and a half years. We used to joke about doing so-and-so on our "fifty-seventh album" or whatever. It was going to go and on, but then it occurred to me that "Namesake Caution" was really our ultimate statement and I didn't want to force it beyond that. It was tough, but it needed to happen and I don't regret my decision.
Are there any musical friends you want to tell us about?
Well, at the moment, Extra Life is blowing my mind. That's Charlie Looker's new band. He and I have been friends since eighth grade and have influenced each other a lot. We have sort of a shared sense of what is good, what is "masterful." To see him embodying all that and doing it on his own is not only exciting, but inspiring. But he's always inspired me. Hazel-Rah (Tim Byrnes' new solo outing) is equally amazing and inspiring. It's like diagonal pop music trapped in telephone wire. I love it. There are a lot of liberating solo acts nowadays. Giggle the Ozone is my friend Dylan's band - not entirely a solo project, although it has that spirit. Dylan's music is astonishing. I highly recommend checking that band out, as well as his other projects, like Zeehas; 12 Wait and Statutaur. Utterly amazing. Scutopus makes incredible noise and drone pieces, some of which are absolutely gorgeous. I have a lot of very talented friends.
Who is the guest female vocalist on "Dredge Up Eventide"?
Her name is Vickie Kereszi. She's an amazing person. She used to be my boss actually.
Where? What other projects is she involved in?
At Manhattan Neighborhood Network, where I work (public access TV for Manhattan). She does video work mostly. She also sings in a band called My Survival Kit. Also, the song is about her, so it had to be her voice.
Is that where you are now?
It is. And crazy people keep coming in to ruin this interview.Awesome!
Seriously, since we've begun, I've had a transsexual come in and demand I cancel her show, only then to return and tell me not to and an older woman come in and spill my coffee all over the floor! It's chaos!
Shit, i wish i was there.
It's a real circus. Those things really happened.
What do you do at MNN?
Oh, I'm the "scheduling coordinator." Programming. I basically replace everyone's shows with Roboshithead and It Changed :(.
"It Changed:("
Do you write the scripts for both of those shows? Do you compose the scores?
When there are scripts, I partake in writing them. Sometimes it's all improv with basic ideas mapped out. And yes, I score them both.
How did you get involved with scoring the film "Host"? How does Stern score movies?My friend Nat Johnson made "Host" and knew he wanted me to score it, since we share a certain dark/sci-fi/humorous aesthetic. I think it worked well. I also scored his film, "Pattern Seeking Mammals." I'm about to start work on another film score by a guy named Greg Mitnick called "Roy," which is just as weird. Really looking forward to it.
I've just naturally gravitated to that medium, because my music has always had a cinematic quality to it. I'm obsessed with certain film score composers, most notably Ennio Morricone. I'm also a huge film buff, so it just makes sense. In terms of writing, I just try to enhance the drama or shade it in, so to speak - add texture, depth, nostalgia. It's a lot of fun and it's very gratifying.
Have you ever had an alien encounter?Yes, I was abducted once by aliens and it was fucking horrifying - bright, blinding light, deafening silence (if that makes any sense) and just utter panic/helplessness. It occurred to me later that it was probably sleep paralysis, which is an actual condition in which your body can't move, but your mind is mostly awake. It's often accompanied by evil/dark imagery. I have a friend who had it and was chased by a giant meatball... others have had demonic elements in their dreams. For me, it was this group of aliens in my room. Really intense.
How did you get involved with scoring the film "Host"? How does Stern score movies?My friend Nat Johnson made "Host" and knew he wanted me to score it, since we share a certain dark/sci-fi/humorous aesthetic. I think it worked well. I also scored his film, "Pattern Seeking Mammals." I'm about to start work on another film score by a guy named Greg Mitnick called "Roy," which is just as weird. Really looking forward to it.
I've just naturally gravitated to that medium, because my music has always had a cinematic quality to it. I'm obsessed with certain film score composers, most notably Ennio Morricone. I'm also a huge film buff, so it just makes sense. In terms of writing, I just try to enhance the drama or shade it in, so to speak - add texture, depth, nostalgia. It's a lot of fun and it's very gratifying.
Have you ever had an alien encounter?Yes, I was abducted once by aliens and it was fucking horrifying - bright, blinding light, deafening silence (if that makes any sense) and just utter panic/helplessness. It occurred to me later that it was probably sleep paralysis, which is an actual condition in which your body can't move, but your mind is mostly awake. It's often accompanied by evil/dark imagery. I have a friend who had it and was chased by a giant meatball... others have had demonic elements in their dreams. For me, it was this group of aliens in my room. Really intense.
Describe a typical Sculptress session. Where, when, how, etc. give me the low down, do you guys get high before you write or play? Meditate? Drink cool-aid?
Ha, A little of all of those. We take baths in Kool-Aid. Actually, Charlie and I used to take naked baths together in high school, no joke. We called them gaths (gay baths). And we still have sleep overs.
Are you in a studio setting when your writing for Sculptress or is always different? In front of a computer, mixer?
No, it's the two of us in my apartment. We write together with him at the guitar and me at the keyboard. We've been writing this really strange Morton Feldman-esque new music piece called "Voluptuaries." We just chisel away at it each time we're together. There's some back and forth email stuff, but it's mostly us in person.
Could you elaborate on what you think is 'masterful'?
Good question. It's a word me and Charlie throw around a lot, but I'll sum up my thoughts. A master is someone who successfully integrates all essential elements into a whole and makes it utterly convincing. It's also someone who is a good, compassionate person. Someone who is open to new ideas, to criticism. So I'd say a master is someone who possesses those artistic qualities, as well as personality ones. There's a visionary aspect to being a master. It's not just doing something well, it's trusting that fucking crazy voice in the back of your head and moving forward to fully flesh out your wildest ambitions. It's having the nerve to give yourself clout. Wait, so I'm a master? I guess I am. ED
I learned alot from my chat with Chuck. A few days after the interview Chuck sent me 3 of his dreams. Please take a minute to read them below:
I learned alot from my chat with Chuck. A few days after the interview Chuck sent me 3 of his dreams. Please take a minute to read them below:
1. I was walking past a chicken or hen on the street. Upon further examination, I realized it was this strange mixture of a crab and a baseball glove. It had a hole in the middle of it, so you could see the street through it (I think this hole was supposed to be its eye?). People were putting out their cigarette butts in the hole and I noticed there was an action figure in there also. As I reached in the opening to pick out the debris and relieve its discomfort, a nearby groundskeeper told me not to bother, because "it don't got no nerves in there."
2. It turned out that, in addition to the "Ghoulies" and "Munchies" franchises, there was also a "Crookies" one - Crookies were these little grey monstrous balls that wore headphones and sided with the mob.
3. I was on a traveling school bus with a lot of people. There was this sniveling, panicky little boy who needed to be given sedatives and tranquilizers. Once he was out, this woman sat him on her lap and pulled down his pants and pulled up his shirt -he was a giant pheasant at this point and she cut a slit into this bony, protruding pouch on his back to remove a slice of lemon!
2. It turned out that, in addition to the "Ghoulies" and "Munchies" franchises, there was also a "Crookies" one - Crookies were these little grey monstrous balls that wore headphones and sided with the mob.
3. I was on a traveling school bus with a lot of people. There was this sniveling, panicky little boy who needed to be given sedatives and tranquilizers. Once he was out, this woman sat him on her lap and pulled down his pants and pulled up his shirt -he was a giant pheasant at this point and she cut a slit into this bony, protruding pouch on his back to remove a slice of lemon!
SOUND:
LIGHT:
It Changed :(
Roboshithead
